Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/18/2001 09:12 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                              MINUTES                                                                                         
                     SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                          April 18, 2001                                                                                      
                             9:12 A.M.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPES                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SFC-01 # 76,  Side A                                                                                                            
SFC 01 # 76,  Side B                                                                                                            
SFC 01 # 77,  Side A                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Pete Kelly convened  the meeting at approximately 9:12 A.M.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dave Donley, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Pete Kelly, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Jerry Ward, Vice-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Loren Leman                                                                                                             
Senator Alan Austerman                                                                                                          
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donald Olson                                                                                                            
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Also  Attending:    DAN  EASTON,  Director,   Division  of  Facility                                                          
Construction   and    Operations,   Department   of   Environmental                                                             
Conservation;  LARRY  MARKLEY,  Alaska  Rural  Electric Cooperative                                                             
Association  (ARECA),  Anchorage;  VERN RAUSCHER,  General  Manager,                                                            
Tlingit  &  Haida  Regional   Electric  Authority,  Juneau;   DARWIN                                                            
PETERSON, Staff,  Senator John Torgerson;  CAROL CARROLL,  Director,                                                            
Division of Support Services, Department of Natural Resources.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Attending  via  Teleconference:    From Anchorage:  JOE  STAM,  Fire                                                          
Program  Manager,  Division  of  Forestry,   Department  of  Natural                                                            
Resources;  ERIC YOULD,  Executive Director,  Alaska Rural  Electric                                                            
Cooperative  Association  (ARECA);  BRENT PETRIE,  Project  Manager,                                                            
Alaska Village Electric  Coop (AVEC); DAVID GERMER, Deputy Director,                                                            
Alaska  Energy Authority  (AEA); WILL  ABBOTT;  From Emonik:  MARTIN                                                            
MOORE;  From Towarik:  ISIAH TOWARAK;  From Craig:  GREG  MICKELSON;                                                            
From  Skagway:  DAVID VOGEL,  Alaska  Power  & Telephone;  Tok:  DON                                                            
MAHON,   Regional   Vice-President,   Alaska  Power   &   Telephone;                                                            
Unalakleet:  DAVID SOULAK;  BOB FOOT,  Regional  Board, ARECA;  RUTH                                                            
MOTO-HINGSBERGER;  ARNIE SATHER, Alaska  Power Company; Dillingham:                                                             
STEVE BUCHONET; CHUCK DUNGAN.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                              
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 148-REMOTE WATER STORAGE FOR FIRE DEPARTMENTS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the sponsor and the Department  of Natural                                                            
Resources.  The bill was held in Committee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SB 184-CONSTRUCTION OF WATER & SEWAGE FACILITIES                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The   Committee  heard   from   the  Department   of  Environmental                                                             
Conservation.  SB 184 was moved out of Committee.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SB 185-PCE BASED ON HIGHEST COST                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the sponsor, industry representatives  and                                                            
members of the public. The bill was HELD in Committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 184                                                                                                        
     "An Act relating to user contributions toward the cost of                                                                  
     construction of certain water and sewage facilities."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley  advised that the  legislation would provide  a one-                                                            
word  change  to existing  statute.    He  explained  that  existing                                                            
statute does not  require a contribution, by the user,  for the cost                                                            
of constructing  a  facility.   He noted  that SB  184 would  simply                                                            
remove the  word "not" and would leave  it up to the budget  process                                                            
or  subsequent  legislation  to  determine  if  there  should  be  a                                                            
contribution.   For all other water  and sewer projects,  a required                                                            
local match exists.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Donley believed  that requiring  a local  match would  give                                                            
communities a  "sense of ownership for projects" and  have a greater                                                            
commitment  to   the  proper  maintenance  of  the   projects.    He                                                            
reiterated  that having some  degree of local  contribution  is good                                                            
public policy.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DAN  EASTON,  Director,   Division  of  Facility  Construction   and                                                            
Operations,  Department of Environmental  Conservation, stated  that                                                            
the Department opposes the bill for three reasons:                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     ·          The Department believes that the bill would not                                                                 
                generate much of a cost savings.  Mr. Easton                                                                    
                pointed out that the State has already saved over                                                               
                $20 million dollars in since FY99.                                                                              
     ·          The communities already contributed to the projects                                                             
                and the cost of maintenance was  also a contribution                                                            
                made.   The cost of  maintaining  the facilities  is                                                            
                often extreme.  Communities  often contribute  lands                                                            
                and rights-of-way for the projects.                                                                             
     ·          The communities understood that a cash contribution                                                             
                was not the way to go.  He used  the example of Good                                                            
                News Bay.   He stated  that with  a 5 percent  match                                                            
                requirement,  the   requirement  would  be   $80,000                                                            
                dollars for  the  $1.6 million  dollars.   He  noted                                                            
                that  it  would  save  the  State  $20,000  and  the                                                            
                federal government  $60,000.   He  pointed out  that                                                            
                $80,000 is 40%  of Good News  Bay's total  operating                                                            
                revenue in any given year.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Easton  stated  that the  impacts  on  these  communities  were                                                            
disproportionate to what exists in the larger communities.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley  suggested that  the  legislation  would "free  up"                                                            
additional  money for other  projects.  He  asked if the  Department                                                            
was opposed to that.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Easton  pointed  out that  the  problem  is  that most  of  the                                                            
communities are not in  the position to provide a cash contribution.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley questioned  if the Department  could categorically                                                             
say that  no communities  would  be able  to contribute  one or  two                                                            
percent toward  the projects.  He wondered if they  had any evidence                                                            
that the communities  could not afford  the contribution.   He asked                                                            
if they had  undertaken an assessment  to see if there was  possibly                                                            
some wealth  in the communities in  order to be able to contribute.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Easton  replied that  the Department had  done an assessment  to                                                            
determine  what the  impacts  would be  if a cash  contribution  was                                                            
required.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley   referred  to  Mr.   Easton's  comment   regarding                                                            
maintenance  being  considered  a  contribution.    He  wondered  if                                                            
maintenance   had  been  considered   as  a  contribution   for  the                                                            
requirement of local match for Cordova.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Easton replied it had  not.  He stated that in Cordova, that the                                                            
operation of  maintenance was not  entirely disproportionate  to the                                                            
norm.   He pointed out  that in smaller  communities, the  operating                                                            
and maintenance costs are much higher per person.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley commented  that it made no  sense that the  size of                                                            
the community  should  have no  impact on  the merit  of whether  to                                                            
consider maintenance towards a local contribution.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Easton  explained that the communities  consider a contribution                                                             
as the cost of  maintenance in excess of what would  be considered a                                                            
normal cost.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley argued  that the excess cost would be considered the                                                            
match.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Easton agreed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley  suggested that the Department was  exaggerating, as                                                            
almost no one pays for  long-term capital project costs in a single-                                                            
year assessment on taxpayers.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Easton  commented  that he had  not exaggerated.   He  clarified                                                            
that the $1.6  million dollars would provide water  and sewer to the                                                            
entire community of Good News Bay.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley   requested  the  percentage  clarification.     He                                                            
stressed that  the maximum match for  the major urban areas  is 30%.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Easton corrected himself,  pointing out that the local match was                                                            
five percent.   That  would mean that  the match  for Good News  Bay                                                            
would  be $80,000  dollars,  which  is 40  percent of  their  annual                                                            
revenue.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly stressed  that the bill was completely permissive and                                                            
would not be damaging to the communities.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman interjected  that he  was strongly  opposed to  the                                                            
bill.   He  pointed out  that  the bill  would affect  the  smallest                                                            
communities  in  Alaska, those  with  a population  from  25 to  600                                                            
people.   He commented  that those  communities  were the ones  most                                                            
dependent upon  subsistence.  They have the highest  water and sewer                                                            
costs of  anyone in  the State.   He stressed  that rural Alaska  is                                                            
always targeted through  the Legislature.  He believed that the bill                                                            
was an "economy of scale" issue.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly  reiterated  that  the  bill  is  permissive.    The                                                            
communities  that cannot  pay would not  be made  to pay.  The  bill                                                            
would allow the State to  examine the communities that can pay more.                                                            
He claimed that there is  dignity in participating in our existence,                                                            
which the  State has  robbed rural  Alaska of.   It is demeaning  to                                                            
have a State government  that is structured to take  a certain class                                                            
of people and say that they do not have to pay for anything.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Green  MOVED  to  report  SB  184  out  of  Committee  with                                                            
individual recommendation and with the zero fiscal note.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman OBJECTED.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  interjected  his objection, also.   He warned  that a                                                            
bill, which targets citizens  or villages and settlements between 25                                                            
and 600  persons,  creates a  "slippery  action".   He claimed  that                                                            
other legislatures will  eventually change the verbiage and then the                                                            
people will  suffer.    He indicated that  polarization will  result                                                            
through the bill.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  understood that the State would take  current numbers                                                            
which  would make  further  burdens on  some  of the  villages.   An                                                            
example is the village  of Diomede, which instituted a three percent                                                            
sales tax  last year.   They saved $12,000  dollars in revenue  from                                                            
that tax,  and that money  has been used  for municipal government.                                                             
If the State takes  that money from a village with  only 125 people,                                                            
a  critical  situation  will  result.     People  in  rural  Alaska,                                                            
desperately  need water and sewer  services.  He stated that  it was                                                            
inconceivable  that the Committee should consider  this legislation.                                                            
He reiterated his opposition to the bill.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  asserted that the  bill does not take anything  from                                                            
any communities.  The legislation  states that the Legislature "may"                                                            
examine  this concern.   He did  not think that  Diomede would  fall                                                            
under the bill.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  restated his concerns  that the bill eventually  will                                                            
take necessary  services  such as  water and sewer  away from  small                                                            
village areas through actions taken with future legislatures.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly strongly disagreed.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Austerman  inquired  what the mechanism  was intended  to be                                                            
used to make the  determination of who would be responsible  to pay.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley replied  that it  would be through  the budget  and                                                            
that it  would be a case-by-case  assessment.   He claimed  that the                                                            
bill would provide  flexibility to deal with those  that do not have                                                            
the capability to pay.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Austerman  asked if  the intent was  to come "to the  table"                                                            
and discuss projects  within the current 25 percent  State match and                                                            
then make that determination.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley responded  that was not the  intent.  He  clarified                                                            
that  the  State  receives  a  block  of  money   from  the  federal                                                            
government and then the State matches that.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Austerman  asked   how  it  would   be  determined   which                                                            
communities pay.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley  recommended  that  the  agencies  would  make  the                                                            
recommendations regarding  communities that have the ability to pay.                                                            
He hoped that some communities might volunteer that information.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Austerman asked  how  it would  be determined  who had  the                                                            
ability  to pay  and who  did not, other  than  what the  Department                                                            
suggests.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley advised  that the Department  currently makes  that                                                            
determination in distributing the community matching grants.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  advised that the community matching  grants and the                                                            
services being discussed are entirely different.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly   advised  that  there  was  a  motion   before  the                                                            
Committee.  He asked if the objection was maintained.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  objected.  He reiterated that SB  184 was an unfair                                                            
bill.  He noted  that the communities,  which will suffer  the most,                                                            
are not based  on a cash economy but instead are subsistence  based.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  questioned  how the bill's  sponsor expected  to save                                                            
the State $2.7 million dollars.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly explained  that  it was  intended  to achieve  those                                                            
savings.   He mentioned  that  he has  heard a  lot of inflammatory                                                             
language this  year that was scaring the village people  and that it                                                            
was not being appropriately voiced.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson interjected  that  there is  valid  concern when  the                                                            
State  starts  to  deal  with  water  and  sewer  concerns  directly                                                            
affecting the public health, and that people need to be scared.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly  strongly  disagreed  with the  statements  made  by                                                            
Senator Olson.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
A roll call was taken on the motion.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
IN FAVOR:       Senator Leman, Senator Ward, Senator Wilken,                                                                    
                Senator Green, Co-Chair Donley and Co-Chair Kelly                                                               
                                                                                                                                
OPPOSED:        Senator Olson, Senator Hoffman and Senator Austerman                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The motion PASSED (6 - 3)                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SB 184 was MOVED out of  Committee with "individual recommendations"                                                            
and with a fiscal note  by Department of Environmental Conservation.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 185                                                                                                        
     "An Act relating to the basis for determining eligibility for                                                              
     and the amount of power cost equalization payments; and                                                                    
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley  stated that SB 185  would revise the formula  under                                                            
which Power  Cost Equalization (PCE)  subsidies are paid,  by making                                                            
it an equitable  program, which adjusts  the maximum kilowatt-hours                                                             
eligible for the  subsidy to more accurately reflect  power usage in                                                            
PCE   communities   and  at   the  same   time   encourages   energy                                                            
conservation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
During  the  past twenty  years,  the  State  of Alaska  has  funded                                                            
various programs subsidizing  electrical rates in rural areas of the                                                            
State.  The goal of these  programs is to provide affordable utility                                                            
power to  rural Alaskans.   Rates in some  PCE-eligible communities                                                             
pay, and the  program fails to do  a good job of encouraging  energy                                                            
conservation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Donley added  that  SB 185  corrects the  inadequacies  and                                                            
makes the  program what its  name implies,  equal.  The legislation                                                             
changes  the  manner in  which  the  rates are  calculated  to  make                                                            
payments  more equalized.   PCE payments  are based  on the  highest                                                            
cost per  kilowatt-hour  (kWh) charged  to a community  that  is not                                                            
eligible for PCE.   A review of sixty-eight community's  residential                                                            
electric  rates   for  FY00  indicates  that  numerous  communities                                                             
receiving  PCE pay  less  for their  power than  those  that do  not                                                            
receive PCE.  Of the sampling's,  forty-one communities that receive                                                            
PCE, twenty-six pay less  than individuals in Kodiak for power usage                                                            
of 500  kWh per month.   If the  sampling is  representative  of all                                                            
communities  in the State, almost  half of PCE-subsidized  customers                                                            
pay less  for  their power  than customers  of the  Kodiak  Electric                                                            
Association.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SB  185 encourages  energy  conservation  by  lowering  the  maximum                                                            
number of subsidized  kilowatt-hours  per month from 500  to 400.  A                                                            
review of year  2000 usage reveals  that the average kilowatt-hours                                                             
used per month  in communities eligible for PCE is  415 kWh.  At the                                                            
current 500  kWh level of subsidy,  there is no incentive  for these                                                            
customers to conserve  energy.  By lowering the maximum  to 400 kWh,                                                            
individuals will  still receive a subsidy for all  the kWh needed to                                                            
power their home.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Donley continued,  the legislation  indirectly  encourages                                                            
everyone  with  the State  to  continue  to find  ways  to  generate                                                            
cheaper,  more  cost-effective   power.    As  the  cost  for  power                                                            
decreases in non-PCE  eligible communities, the power  costs for PCE                                                            
communities will  automatically decrease as well.   He believed that                                                            
it would  be an equitable  way to  assist those  hardest hit  by the                                                            
cost of power  without providing them  with special benefits  denied                                                            
to others.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Revising PCE  to be more equitable  is estimated to reduce  required                                                            
funding by approximately  $9 million dollars, which  would eliminate                                                            
the  need  for the  Governor's  FY02  request  to  appropriate  $7.8                                                            
million  dollars to  pay for PCE  subsidies.   Additionally,  if the                                                            
entire  income  of   the  Power  Cost  Equalization/Rural   Electric                                                            
Capitalization Fund is  not needed to pay the subsidy each year, the                                                            
fund  would  grow  through  interest  income,   making  more  income                                                            
available in future years to help pay future PCE/REC needs.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman interjected  that rural Alaska is already conserving                                                            
the most  because  their costs  are so  high and  their consumption                                                             
rates are some  of the lowest in the State.  He maintained  that the                                                            
proposed  legislation  was  yet another  attempt  to get  closer  to                                                            
hurting rural  Alaskan residents.   Senator Hoffman reiterated  that                                                            
rural  residents  are paying  often  four  times  as much  as  urban                                                            
Alaskans.  He  added that the intent of the PCE work  was an attempt                                                            
to make rural Alaskans  closer to those living in the urban areas in                                                            
what they pay for utilities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC 01 # 76, Side B 09:59 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  continued.   He stressed that  only 31% percent  of                                                            
the power sold in rural  Alaska is eligible for PCE.  The bill is an                                                            
attempt to balance the fiscal gap by targeting rural Alaskans.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley replied  that there is a lot of Alaska that is rural                                                            
that  does not  receive PCE.   He  recommended that  the  definition                                                            
should be the  non-PCE communities versus PCE eligible  communities.                                                            
He added that rural versus urban is an inaccurate statement.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly  asked  the consumption  average  in  Anchorage  and                                                            
Fairbanks.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
LARRY  MARKLEY,  Alaska   Rural  Electric  Cooperative  Association                                                             
(ARECA), Anchorage, responded that it was a little over 700 kWh.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Austerman asked the charge per hour in Anchorage.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly replied  that it was about ten cents or a little more                                                            
per kilowatt-hour.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Markley corrected that  the average in the Anchorage, Fairbanks,                                                            
and Juneau areas is about twelve cents per kWh.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley  interjected that  at 500 hours, the base  declines,                                                            
as the numbers are based on consumption.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  pointed out that the data was built  by using Kodiak                                                            
as an example.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley commented  that the Kodiak average was about twenty-                                                            
two cents per hour.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Austerman commented  that  was based  on an infrastructure                                                             
built around  providing the services.   He voiced his hesitation  to                                                            
get involved  with the proposed  bill as he  represents a number  of                                                            
PCE communities  around the Kodiak area.  Most of  those communities                                                            
start out with a base rate  of about forty cents per kWh.  Until the                                                            
rest of Alaska  is on a grid system, PCE should exist.   In the last                                                            
couple years,  the Legislature has brought down some  of the expense                                                            
associated  with the PCE.   He reminded members  that the  endowment                                                            
process is currently being  addressed to handle some of the concerns                                                            
voiced by the legislation.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green acknowledged  that although the Rail belt does provide                                                            
an advantage,  she has many constituents  in the Mat-Su that  do not                                                            
have access to that power.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VERN  RALPHER,   General   Manager,  Tlingit   and  Haida   Regional                                                            
Electrical  Authority  (THREA),  Juneau,  voiced concern  that  this                                                            
legislation  had surfaced  again.   He  noted that  his company  had                                                            
provided  an analysis, indicating  how the  legislation will  impact                                                            
the communities.   The average residential service  is closer to 500                                                            
kWh, and would create a 30% increase.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ralpher addressed  the concept of conservation  and the wise use                                                            
of electricity.   He pointed out the amount of lights  being used in                                                            
the Committee room for a daylight meeting.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly announced that SB 185 would be HELD in Committee.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Donley  commented that there  are a lot of options  for the                                                            
State and that  SB 185 presents the fairest option.   He stated that                                                            
it is poor  public policy to generically  base discriminatory  State                                                            
payments  on  community  size rather  than  true  need.   By  making                                                            
reforms,  the  State  could  end  up with  a  better  program.    He                                                            
commented on  the need to get the  cost down in the program  so that                                                            
the endowment  is not  being drained  and making  the program  self-                                                            
sufficient would be a positive fiscal outlook for the program.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken  suggested that  research go  back a couple  years to                                                            
see what efforts  have been made to avert some of  the wealth of the                                                            
National  Petroleum  Reserve-Alaska  (NPR-A)  into the  PCE fund  as                                                            
promised.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Austerman agreed that he would like to hear from NPR-A.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  interjected that there had been dialogue  regarding                                                            
the  NPR-A issue  on the  House side.   The  intent  of the  federal                                                            
legislation  regarding the use of  the NPR-A funds was specific  for                                                            
use for those communities impacted by developments of the NPR-A.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SB 185  was HELD  in Committee.  It  was reconsidered  later in  the                                                            
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 148                                                                                                        
     "An Act relating to remote water storage for fire                                                                          
     departments."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DARWIN PETERSON,  Staff, Senator John  Torgerson, explained  that SB
148 would instruct the  Department of Natural Resources to construct                                                            
remote water  storage sites  for fire protection.   The sites  would                                                            
consist of 10,000-gallon  underground storage tanks  with a pump and                                                            
a hydrant.  The Department  will solicit applications for the remote                                                            
storage tanks  from all the organized fire service  areas statewide.                                                            
The  Department   will  rank   the  applications   and  based   upon                                                            
appropriations,   construct  as  many  as  they  could  afford.  The                                                            
applications would be ranked by the following factors:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     ·          Distance from an adequate water supply;                                                                         
     ·          Number of buildings to be protected;                                                                            
     ·          Extent of spruce bark beetle infestation;                                                                       
     ·          Ability of fire service to provide matching funds,                                                              
                maintain and operate the remote water storage site;                                                             
                and                                                                                                             
     ·          Other pertinent factors.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  discussed  the need  for remote  water storage  sites,                                                            
which  is evident  in  many areas  of the  State,  especially  where                                                            
beetle infested  timber greatly increases  the risk of catastrophic                                                             
wildfire.   The legislation  would help protect  the lives  of those                                                            
people living  on the fringe of fire  service areas.  It  would also                                                            
reduce  property  loss  and  possibly  lower  water  rates  for  the                                                            
residents.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman  interjected that the  requirement for matching  funds                                                            
leads  to a "slippery  slope".   In  Section 2,  the language  reads                                                            
"may" require organized matching funds of up to 50%.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  commented that  the intent  of that language  provides                                                            
the  Department  the opportunity  to  decide  who the  "more  needy"                                                            
groups  would be.   The Department  would fund  the first two  sites                                                            
completely  and  the  third site  would  be  asked  to put  up  some                                                            
matching funds.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman  asked if other options  have been considered  such as                                                            
tax credits for property owners.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  responded  that  option had  not yet  been taken  into                                                            
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked why the tanks would be underground.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson   explained   that  the  fire   service  areas   which                                                            
participated in the drafting  of the legislation, submitted a number                                                            
of options  for developing the remote  water storage sites.   Of all                                                            
the  options  proposed,  the  underground  one  was  the  most  cost                                                            
effective.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked if the facility would be a permanent site.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson replied it would.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green inquired if it could be a mobile unit.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  explained that would  be a very expensive option.   He                                                            
suggested that if it would  alleviate Committee members concern, the                                                            
language  could be changed  from saying that  the storage "must  be"                                                            
10,000-gallon underground storage tanks, to "may be".                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green  agreed that would be a better option.   She suggested                                                            
that language provided more flexibility.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  voiced concern that the tank would  only hold 10,000-                                                            
gallons  of water and  asked how  that amount  would contain  a vast                                                            
fire.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  responded that the intention of the  legislation was                                                            
to address smaller fires.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CAROL CARROLL,  Director, Division  of Support Services,  Department                                                            
of  Natural  Resources,  indicated  that  Joe Stam  was  on-line  to                                                            
comment on that concern.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JOE STAM,  [Testified  via Teleconference],  Fire  Program  Manager,                                                            
Division of  Forestry, Department  of Natural Resources,  Anchorage,                                                            
stated  that  intent of  the  bill is  to  aid fire  departments  in                                                            
suppressing  structure fires  in remote areas  of the State.   There                                                            
are a  lot of  areas that  are not served  by water  systems of  any                                                            
kind.  The tanks  would be located in proximity of  subdivisions and                                                            
clusters  of structures  where  there is not  a water  supply.   The                                                            
intent  of the  underground tank  is to  be useful  all year  round.                                                            
There are  a number  of these tanks  in existence  in Alaska  in the                                                            
Mat-Su Valley and in Fairbanks.   Those are facilitated by donations                                                            
of tanks from the railroad, cars which were buried.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Stam continued,  the Department would use those  in the Division                                                            
of Forestry for putting  out wild fires, but not as much as the fire                                                            
departments  would use them.  The  tanks will hold 10,000  to 20,000                                                            
gallons of water.   The Division has received requests  from several                                                            
fire  departments  with no  water  systems,  who are  interested  in                                                            
obtaining the tanks.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked if  the tanks would be used to store water to be                                                            
placed into fire trucks.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Stam explained that  the tanks would be located on the road net.                                                            
They would use  the underground tanks to fill the  off-road vehicles                                                            
to go to the  remote fire areas.   The tanks would be dual-purpose.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Ward inquired  if there were fire trucks that  could move on                                                            
open terrain, not needing a road.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Stam responded that  a variety of different fire apparatuses are                                                            
used for different situations.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Ward asked  how many  gallons  of water  would a  non-wheel                                                            
vehicle carry.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Stam replied that the  ones that the Division has are 500-gallon                                                            
tanks. He added  that they do contract  with the private  sector for                                                            
the majority of that type of equipment use.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Wilken  commented that an  above ground tank would  have the                                                            
problems  of maintenance  and thievery.   The purpose  of having  it                                                            
underground  would be  to provide  an "out  of sight,  out of  mind"                                                            
facility.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  moved to adopt a conceptual amendment,  Page 2, Line                                                            
11, deleting,  "capable of storing at least 10,000  gallons of water                                                            
and a pump, hydrant, and associated piping".                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, the amendment was ADOPTED.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly stated that the bill would be HELD in committee.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     SENATE BILL NO. 185                                                                                                        
     "An Act relating to the basis for determining eligibility for                                                              
     and the amount of power cost equalization payments; and                                                                    
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This bill was held from earlier in the meeting.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ERIC YOULD,  Executive Director, Alaska  Rural Electric Cooperative                                                             
Association  (ARECA), testified via  teleconference from  Anchorage,                                                            
requested  that the bill  not be passed  out of  the Committee.   He                                                            
stressed how  important the issues  of the bill are.  He  reiterated                                                            
that  this is  a major  and important  piece  of legislation.    The                                                            
program  has had significant  "stream-lining"  over  the years.   It                                                            
started in  1980 as the  Power Cost Assistance  Program.  He  listed                                                            
various State  projects undertaken.  At that  time, energy  was four                                                            
cents per kWh  and at this time it is nine cents per  kWh.  In rural                                                            
Alaska,  it was  forty cents  per  kWh and  today it  is still  that                                                            
price.  Over  the years, the program  has changed.  In 1985,  it was                                                            
changed  to the  Power Cost  Equalization  (PCE)  Program, at  which                                                            
time,  the formula  was  significantly  changed.   In  1993, it  was                                                            
changed again.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly requested  that Mr. Yould testify to the specifics of                                                            
the bill.  He commented  that the Committee would hear the bill at a                                                            
later date and more testimony could be taken at that time.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Yould noted that the  specifics of the bill are to set the stage                                                            
for some  of questions.   Anchorage  and Fairbanks  cost is  roughly                                                            
nine cents  per kWh and in rural Alaska  that cost is roughly  forty                                                            
cents per kWh.   Even with PCE, for those that the  program reaches,                                                            
the cost  is twenty-five  cents per  kWh, which  on the average,  is                                                            
above  the cost  of  various  communities.   Some  communities  were                                                            
recipients of major funding projects such as the Four Dam Pool.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC 01 # 77, Side A 10:48 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MARTIN MOORE  testified via  teleconference  from Emonik and  voiced                                                            
opposition to SB 185.   He stated that the bill would reduce the PCE                                                            
program entitlement  and subject older and disabled  persons to risk                                                            
of health and well-being.   The legislation does not offer a list of                                                            
affordable  power benefits for the  rural areas.  He urged  that the                                                            
bill not pass from Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ISIAH TOWARAK  testified  via teleconference  from Towarik,  to urge                                                            
fully funding  the PCE program.  He  suggested a tax credit  for the                                                            
oil companies to help fully fund the program.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GREG MICKELSON  testified via teleconference from  Craig that SB 185                                                            
would drastically  affect his customers  creating a 28% increase  in                                                            
utility costs.   The smaller communities  would suffer an  even more                                                            
dramatic increase.  He  added that none of the customers on Price of                                                            
Wales Island  are paying  less than  the twelve-cent  per kWh  rate.                                                            
Most  of them  are currently  paying around  thirteen  and one  half                                                            
cents  per kWh  after  PCE.   The Island  has  some of  the  highest                                                            
unemployment  rates  in Southeast  Alaska  at 22%.    He asked  that                                                            
members consider  the impact to the  economy in that area,  as power                                                            
is a major part of everyone's life.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Kelly  commented that the  Committee would be checking  the                                                            
end costs  to the residential  users.   That should  be a factor  in                                                            
whether to support the bill.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID VOGEL, Alaska Power  & Telephone, testified via teleconference                                                            
from Skagway  to voice his concern  with the legislation  and how it                                                            
would  affect his  customers  who live  on a  fixed  income.   Those                                                            
people would be  taking the "brunt" resulting from  the legislation.                                                            
He noted that he strongly opposed SB 185.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DON  MAHON,  Regional  Vice-President,  Alaska  Power  &  Telephone,                                                            
testified via  teleconference from  Tok that his company  served ten                                                            
remote communities  in Interior  Alaska.  He  noted his concern  for                                                            
the customers living in  those communities.  Lowering the PCE to 400                                                            
per  kWh would  increase  bills on  an average  of  $24 dollars  per                                                            
month.  That  additional expense is  not available to most  of these                                                            
people.   He  added that  it  is important  to consider  the  energy                                                            
required  on the new homes  being built in  the remote communities.                                                             
He urged that there be additional hearing on the legislation.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  SOULAK  testified  via  teleconference   from  Unalakleet  in                                                            
opposition  to the legislation.   He pointed  out that the  possible                                                            
cost to the City of Unalakleet  for the year, if the legislation was                                                            
passed, would  be $24,710  dollars.  The  increase will deplete  any                                                            
funds in the City's bank account.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BOB   FOOT,   Regional   Board   Member,    ARECA,   testified   via                                                            
teleconference  from  Unalakleet,   and  voiced  opposition  to  the                                                            
proposed legislation.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
RUTH MOTO-HINGSBERGEN testified  via teleconference from Unalakleet,                                                            
that  the village  pays thirty-eight  cents  per kWh,  which is  the                                                            
average monthly  usage for residential customers.  She voiced strong                                                            
opposition to the proposed legislation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ARNIE SATHER,  Alaska Power  Company, testified  via teleconference                                                             
and echoed the concerns  voiced by the other testifiers.  Mr. Sather                                                            
recommended  that the  Committee continue  to hold  hearings on  the                                                            
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
STEVE  BUCHONT  testified  via  teleconference  from  Dillingham  to                                                            
advise  that SB  185 was  narrowly focused  for the  impact that  it                                                            
would  have.  He  added  that  the   State  needs  to  have  a  more                                                            
comprehensive  plan to address rate increases.  He  pointed out that                                                            
there is expected  to be an additional increase in  fuel prices this                                                            
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BRENT PETRIE,  Project Manager, Alaska Village Electric  Cooperative                                                            
(AVEC),  testified  via  teleconference  from  Anchorage  that  AVEC                                                            
serves fifty-one villages  in Western Alaska.  The per capita income                                                            
in  those communities  is  approximately  one-third  what  it is  in                                                            
Anchorage.  The medium  household income is about fifty percent less                                                            
than it is  in Anchorage.  He stressed  that there is a need.   When                                                            
the  large  difference  in  income   is  noted  given  the  cost  of                                                            
electricity  and other  energy forms,  the difference  becomes  even                                                            
greater.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The average  use for the residential  customer is a little  over 400                                                            
per kWh.  Ten years ago,  it was about 330 per kWh.  The increase is                                                            
due to  the fact that  now some  people are hooked  up to water  and                                                            
sewer systems  and to keep  those running  in the winter, they  need                                                            
electric  heat traces on  the lines coming  into their houses.   Mr.                                                            
Petrie added  that electric  heat has been  actively discouraged  in                                                            
all homes and  that they are being  responsible from a conservation                                                             
point  of view.   Fuel costs  have increased  over  the past  couple                                                            
years and amount to over 30% of the operating costs.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Petrie  advised  that stability  is important  at this point  in                                                            
time.  Many changes  have been made to the program  in the last year                                                            
in  cooperation   with  the  Legislature,  the  utilities   and  the                                                            
residents.  He recommended  that stability be maintained as the Four                                                            
Dam Pool is being sold and the endowment is being consummated.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  GERMER,  Deputy  Director,  Alaska  Energy  Authority  (AEA),                                                            
testified via teleconference  from Anchorage and voiced concern with                                                            
the proposed  legislation.  He stressed  that the legislation  would                                                            
have dramatic consequences  for rural Alaska.  Raising the rate from                                                            
twelve to twenty cents  would result in increased costs to residents                                                            
in rural Alaska of approximately $6.9 million dollars.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Germer  pointed  out that community  facilities  make up  26% of                                                            
total eligible  kilowatts  for FY00.   Raising the  base rate  would                                                            
result in  an increased cost  of an estimated  $2.4 million  dollars                                                            
per year  for community facilities  alone.   Buildings that  are not                                                            
operated for profit will  experience a huge impact from the proposed                                                            
changes.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AEA has  major concerns regarding  the effect  of the bill  on rural                                                            
Alaska  as  well  as  urban  Alaska.    He  encouraged   members  to                                                            
reconsider the bill and the effects on all Alaskans.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
WILL   ABBOTT   testified   via  teleconference    from   Anchorage,                                                            
recommended  that  the  Committee  reconsider  the  passage  of  the                                                            
proposed  legislation.  He  offered to answer  any questions  of the                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHUCK DUNGAN testified  via teleconference from Unalakleet  to voice                                                            
opposition  to  the   proposed  legislation.    He  commented   that                                                            
unemployment is  high and any cost increase to consumers  would be a                                                            
severe burden.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Kelly stated that  SB 185 would  be HELD in Committee  for                                                            
further consideration.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Pete Kelly adjourned the meeting at 11:15 AM.                                                                          

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